Matt Cipillone 00:00 

I think one of the biggest problems we have, especially in this country is people aren't necessarily committed to certain ideas or movements until it happens directly to them or directly to a loved one. They can't picture it. They don't care about it. Everyone's so busy, life so stressful, for better for worse. Or they just lack empathy, right? Let's just say like that. But a good documentary can save someone for having to have that happen to them or a loved one.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 00:32 

Welcome to Media in the Mix, the only podcast produced and hosted by the School of Communication at American University. Join us as we create a safe space to explore topics and communication at the intersection of social justice, tech, innovation, and pop culture. Welcome back to Media in the Mix. I'm your host Grace Ibrahim, and today I'm here with Matt Cipillone. Matt is an American University alum currently working in documentary cinematography and production, and with a passion for film work that tells unheard stories. In his time at AU, he received an MFA in film and electronic media, worked as a graduate assistant, participated in the alumni mentor program and community voice fellowship, and filmed, edited and produced many varying visual media pieces in the company of our esteemed professors. He's currently a senior producer and cinematographer for Lens End Media, making documentaries series centered around social awareness. Thanks so much for being here today, Matt!  

 

Matt Cipillone 01:28 

I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 01:29 

Nice to finally meet you in person. Let's talk about kind of your time at SOC. Can you explain to everyone why you chose American University? Just your time here, your graduate program and kind of the things you were involved with on campus as well?  

 

Matt Cipillone 01:44 

Absolutely. First and foremost, I was so impressed with, I mean, AU as a campus, its reputation. It's, it's great. But the thing that really did it for me was all of the key professors in the program were still active filmmakers. And they still are, you know, there were other programs I was looking at where people had some pretty esteemed resumes, but they weren't necessarily in that phase of their career. And then when I got to know the faculty here, before I actually formally applied, you know, as I did my homework and learn more about them, it just seemed like such a great added opportunity to have your professors also, in the middle of making incredible films. It didn't mean that I expected to be able to work on them with them necessarily. But I just wanted that kind of exposure to people whose reference points were still in like modern day industry, and getting to plug in to so many of these projects, as while I was still a student, that that was just kind of icing on the cake. But what really just made me pick it was the current level of involvement of the faculty members, by far.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 02:57 

That's awesome. Yeah, actually, can you tell us some of the faculty members you worked with? Because some of them are still here today? Yeah.  

 

Matt Cipillone 03:03 

Almost all of them are still here today, too. So, Professor Jayaswal was my first, well I guess, currently Dean, very, very proud of her for that. Actually, first, was my first phone call regarding American University, because she had some reference points to some other schools that I had been looking at too. And she really heard what I wanted to do and thought that the faculty was very primed for that. And she started helping me make introductions. Professor Caty Borum, as well, her filmmaking partner, so out of the gate, because I was Dean Jayaswal's graduate assistant, I was able to work on their film Mixed. So that was one of my first professional opportunities, even though I was a new student.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 03:54 

Yeah.  

 

Matt Cipillone 03:55 

You know, I found myself out of the gate filming something that we just screened in DC a couple months ago. So that right there just proved the model before I barely even got started. Professor Maggie Stogner, she was my Production One professor. And as great as that class was, little did I know that I would be sent around the East Coast for Maggie filming the film Unbreathable. Yeah, right?  

 

Grace Ibrahim 04:25 

Yes. So cool.  

 

Matt Cipillone 04:27 

Yeah, I got to do great community documentary work for her film. She also really helped me test this model, this theory that I had, where I felt like these professors, if I saw an opportunity, outside of class, to really look at the syllabus - and this is advice I have for current students - if there's one thing I can tell you, it's: don't think that you're limited by a specific assignment. If you have an idea on how to expand that, Maggie was the first professor that really helped me go, if you think you can add to this and make inroads in real life, sure, you can take this interview assignment and turn it into a mini film.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 05:03 

Yeah.  

 

Matt Cipillone 05:04 

And that was a really good experience that I had. And then I kind of took that mindset, and as I met each new professor, I really tried to say, look, this is what I have access to, in the real world outside of class. Here's how I think with a little bit of tweaking and picking your brain, maybe you can help me look at this more as like a future employment opportunity as opposed to a homework assignment.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 05:27 

Okay.  

 

Matt Cipillone 05:27 

And so I tried to take that approach as much as possible. I just bumped into Professor Larry Engel. Yeah, he helped really got me through some some of my tougher projects as I progressed. And then I want to at least mention Larry Kirkman, who's no longer here, he had me do some great environmental work for him. I actually went up and saw him in Vermont, and we did some great stuff up there. Yeah. Then I last but not least, Professor, Bill Gentile. I actually, the other piece of why I picked American University was I saw this line of classes called Backpack Documentary. I didn't know who was behind that. I just knew that that sounded, coming out of the nonprofit world of small budgets and wanting to do communications work, I thought that that one man band theory, one person operator theory was, was very applicable to where I was in my career. And then I got to know Bill and his history. And I actually walked in and told him before I applied that I was going to work for him. And he kind of looked at me and was like, okay, he was polite about it. But I actually went and approached him and I was, I was pretty hell bent on being his grad assistant. And it took some lobbying, but I eventually did it. I was able to be his grad assistant. And then next thing I knew, because I had taken a risk on some other projects, that showed him enough to where I didn't realize this was coming. He called me up and said, We're going to Mexico. And while I was a student, we made an hour film in Mexico, called Freelancers with Bill Gentile, Mexico that I also edited as well. And so I got to go through this entire soup-to-nuts process with one of the best out there. And all of that was while I was still a student. And that's not even talking about some of the other programs that are involved, that you can get involved in a you that was just individual. Bridget Maher, I believe, also hired me for one of her films. So, being able to do all that while you're still in class is something that I don't think you should expect. But that all happened in my time here.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 07:39 

Tha t's awesome. Yeah, I really appreciate that. That's great. I have two questions related to that. Actually, I think the first one I'll ask is, Can you give any advice to students because I know we've had students on, we've talked about this with professors that we've had on, and every professor you named we've actually had on this podcast - well, Bill Gentile we did a "Let's Talk" with for Backpack Documentary in Spanish - but can you give advice to students who maybe find it a little intimidating to kind of take that step forward of communicating with your professors outside of the classroom or finding those opportunities, or just kind of having that courage to say like, they need help, too. So any advice there?  

 

Matt Cipillone 08:16 

Yeah, flip it on its head and say, I want to make them earn their money, too, right? Yeah, it's uncomfortable. I didn't love going there. I just knew that I wanted to have every point of leverage that I could. And I also knew enough about the real world where I did study, but I knew that most people didn't care when I got on my my quiz, right? It wasn't about the perfect GPA. It doesn't mean it's not important. But you have to understand a visual industry is more about "show me, not tell me." 

 

Grace Ibrahim 08:47 

Interesting.  

 

Matt Cipillone 08:48 

And so I just kind of innately understood that. It doesn't mean I like going in and asking for meetings. I don't like networking. I don't want to imply that I do. I just understand what, there's certain things where no one likes it. Show me someone who likes doing those things. Right?  

 

Grace Ibrahim 09:07 

You understand the importance of it. 

 

Matt Cipillone 09:08 

You have to understand the importance, and once you understand also that the upside is so much higher than the minimal discomfort at first, you don't even think twice about it after that.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 09:18 

Yeah. Once it kind of gets flowing and you're like, "Okay, this was worth it." 

 

Matt Cipillone 09:21 

Absolutely.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 09:22 

Yeah.  

 

Matt Cipillone 09:22 

You just, you just have to look at things like that if you want to get the most out of these situations, and there's no other way around.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 09:27 

Yeah, that's great advice. And that's very true. It's putting yourself outside your comfort zone. It's like sometimes you just have to do it. But my other question is working with all these professors and kind of being a student at the time, is there anything you learned at the time, on set, in meetings, that you take with you and you still use today? It can be like a production lesson or really just any lesson in this industry that you're kind of like "I learned that then and I'm still practicing it now." 

 

Matt Cipillone 09:53 

Yeah, several things. I mean, lots of them have to do with you know, filmmaking tips and crafts and you know, people like Bill, and Maggie, and Lena, talking about, you know, all those great professors who were just imparting literal filmmaking and sound capture and editing skills. But I think, also just the approach of you know, when work gets serious, you really need to be someone that knows how to build trust ahead of time, you need to do...a lot of them...I just had the wonderful opportunity to go meet the most current foreign correspondents students before I came over and spend time with you all today. And even though not all of them are going to be filmmakers, the types of stories they're doing, it was so relevant to understanding that you have to go out into a community that's not your own and show you're trustworthy, before you ever pull the camera out. Or in their case, before you ever pull a notepad out or, or start doing a print story or whatever iteration of that there is, you know, I, these, these faculty members really hammered home, that most of the important work is done before you ever turn something on or hit record or, do a really loud slate, you know. And those are things that really stuck with me. And then I got to go see that in action. It wasn't just talked about it in class, and you go out on these, these projects with them, and we're in another country. And you know, I see Professor Gentile, saying "Leave everything in the car, we're not going to go touch it for hours. We need to go at people understand why we're here and that we're not exploiting anything first." Right? I went to the Mississippi Delta with Professor Jayaswal. Sorry, Dean. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 11:37 

Yeah, that's true. I know. Yeah. It's a weird for me too.  

 

Matt Cipillone 11:41 

But...and it was all about having a whole week of ingratiating myself into a community that doesn't love doing interviews and stories before, actually, you know, turning on a camera for a really great story opportunity at the end of a full week of introducing myself. It wasn't that she said it, she was there for it too. And on and on, and on and on, I got to see them practicing these lessons in real life and really reinforcing them.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 12:13 

That's awesome. And we actually, we had Derek McGinty on the podcast, and he kind of talked about the approach as a journalist approaching a really tough situation, someone that's, you know, someone who's had a child that's passed, and he has to talk, you know, so he kind of brought up that same idea of you got to approach it with a little bit of care. And you can't bring that camera out and and all that. That's really, I love that you brought that up. Two...two little light hearted questions before we move on. Was there like a favorite class that's still stuck in your head at AU, your time at AU? 

 

Matt Cipillone 12:42 

That's, that's a lot of pressure. I just said hi to all of them.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 12:45 

You just mentioned everybody. But I guess let's go with this question. Is there a class that you took where you felt like it really did set you up for being a cinematographer? And kind of launching you into that world?  

 

Matt Cipillone 12:58 

Yeah, Backpack. Backpack Doc. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 13:00 

Awesome. Okay, good to know.  

 

Matt Cipillone 13:01 

That was just everything, I think, for me where I was, and what I was looking to do in the short term really came together in that class. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 13:09 

Awesome.  

 

Matt Cipillone 13:10 

It doesn't mean it's not a team sport, but at the same time, knowing how to...it doesn't mean that that's should be your approach for how you go look for opportunities, but being able to say yes to something and understanding how to take advantage of opportunities where most people might need a team, but you really still want to make that your own and knowing how to approach it. Or for times, what that class was very valuable for work that's a little more on the sensitive side. Because a lot of stories...it's, you can figure out how to make it appropriate for one person or max two to be there. But not every situation is appropriate for a whole filmmaking team, very intimate moments don't really, don't match up well with a crew. And that class was all about nuance. It wasn't just the equipment that you need, if you're on your own, it was also about the cultural approaches to execute well, if you're by yourself in unfamiliar territories, where it really is probably more in line with one person going in, you know, understanding nuance about some of these types of situations that you don't want to bring a crew or else you're going to look insensitive.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 14:27 

Right, right. There's like that value to being that one person. 

 

Matt Cipillone 14:31 

I just really enjoyed that whole theory behind that.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 14:34 

Yeah.  

 

Matt Cipillone 14:34 

As well as the filmmaking chances that came out of it.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 14:37 

That's great. Bill's gonna be so happy to hear that, that awesome. 

 

Matt Cipillone 14:39 

He better be.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 14:41 

And then last thing before we move on from SOC, is there any advice that you would give your SOC students now kind of knowing what's ahead of them, now that you've, you've been in the industry, and you're where you're at now?  

 

Matt Cipillone 14:54 

Yeah, I think one thing we didn't talk about yet was the...don't be too....two things that kind of go hand in hand.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 15:02 

Absolutely. 

 

Matt Cipillone 15:02 

One, if you have the luxury of being referred, especially by the faculty here, you need to keep a perfect track record. Doesn't mean that every frame you shoot has to be good, but it means that their names are behind these referrals, and you just have to be very easy to work with. And your character is just as important, especially with referrals, because the minute that you make somebody look like they shouldn't have referred you because of how you carried yourself, not only are you never going to work with those people, again, you're never going to get that referral, again from that person. And you made a personal relationship strained, right? So you have to really be very cognizant of if the referral opportunities are there, you need to treat those with the utmost importance. And assuming you do that, and you do pay attention to those things, that's an incredible recurring source of experience and work opportunities. The other I would say is, don't be afraid to take a job where you think your skills might be a little bit beyond that particular opportunity. Like, for example, by the year three, I was pretty proud of my cinematography progression. But I was approached about, and again, introduced by a professor to a filmmaking crew that needed a PA. Interesting now, I felt like my skills were beyond a PA, but their lead director of photography was someone who I would do anything to just pick his brain.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 16:39 

Yeah.  

 

Matt Cipillone 16:39 

And the producers were doing really interesting stories, and it was a story I cared about. It was gun violence, and one of the cities is my home city of Baltimore.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 16:47 

Gotcha.  

 

Matt Cipillone 16:48 

And so not only was I going to have a chance to contribute to a story that could hopefully move the needle in my own hometown, I was going to get to be around really talented people, and they didn't need another filmmaker. So I just drove them around, because I had a good lay of the land, since they were from out of town, and I moved gear. And throughout the day, eventually, if you're working hard, you know, good people are going to notice that you can do more.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 17:16 

100 percent.  

 

Matt Cipillone 17:17 

And they'll find out eventually on their own terms. And you know, I didn't push it, I just was happy to be meeting new people to follow up afterwards. And in time, they learned that I could maybe contribute more, because they asked questions after I was working hard. And then I was up and down the country with them as another camera person for a film on gun violence. And it was all because I was willing to be a PA and just drive a van around. And if I had said no to that, because I thought I was beyond that, like that would have never happened. And this is one example of lots of examples like that. And I think as you start to get a couple of wins, you might feel like you're beyond stuff. But if that crew, there are people that you can benefit from being around, go do anything that they're asking you to do and work hard and be a team player, and they'll figure it out from there.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 18:08 

That's really good advice. Actually, I feel like that just hit me on a personal level. Because I feel like sometimes we have this fear of like moving backwards, and we only want to move forward. But it's like one step back four steps forward.  

 

Matt Cipillone 18:17 

And it's not, don't do it blind, like really do your homework.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 18:20 

Yeah.  

 

Matt Cipillone 18:20 

I mean, you can't if you're a PA every day, you're not going to be able to be a cinematographer every day, but there are those clear cut chances to be in other people's proximity, where you know, you're gonna go home better than you showed up that day, regardless of what they asked you to do. And those are the ones I think you should never be too proud to take advantage of.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 18:40 

That's awesome. That's great advice. And can you tell us about lens and media and how that kind of came about what brought you to that, kind of, where you're at today? And that's in Arlington? Correct?  

 

Matt Cipillone 18:51 

Yes, it's right in downtown Clarendon.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 18:53 

Oh, nice. Okay.  

 

Matt Cipillone 18:54 

Yeah.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 18:54 

I'm in Balston, so I'm like, right near you. 

 

Matt Cipillone 18:56 

Yeah, we're right at the at the Metro Station.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 18:58 

Oh nice, okay. That's awesome. Okay. Yeah.  

 

Matt Cipillone 19:01 

Lens End Media, this goes back to that whole beginning of this conversation where even if something's uncomfortable, you never know where just reaching out will get you. The week before lock downs as a concept were announced, I was still a solo, camera operator, cinematographer, editor, producer, and someone I knew handed me a business card and said, I was at this networking event and it was false advertising. It was not what we were there for. Everyone else was just doing their own thing. But I happen to meet this one guy your age who randomly enough looked like he was trying to do it... do the same kind of work as you. And it was just kind of handed me a business card. And I just said, why not? And introduce myself, said hello. But by the time I got around to it, the world was shut down.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 19:53 

Oh, wow.  

 

Matt Cipillone 19:54 

None of us were filming, everything was shut down. And so I could have just as easily just thrown that in the trash. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 20:00 

Yeah 

 

Matt Cipillone 20:00 

But I just said, why not? You know, I respected the person's opinion that had said, I think this person is pretty impressive. I think there's an intersection here if you just reach out. So I did this awkward reach out to say hello. And he was doing some great stuff, had just started this company Lens End two years ago, we just wrapped year three. We just stayed in touch. And there was nothing to do because the world was shut down. But we just stayed in touch. And I just liked where he was going with things. And then once the world opened up again, I did a couple of freelance jobs, for some documentary work for him and his partner. And all that's a way of trying to connect those little lessons we talked about, they brought me on full time and this week is my year anniversary.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 20:44 

Okay, congratulations!  

 

Matt Cipillone 20:45 

Thank you very much! And so, we're a full scale production shop and post-house, and we do everything from long- and short-form documentary to full scale commercials.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 20:55 

That's amazing. You know, my, my production assistant from last semester works with you, Lila Dellaron.  

 

Matt Cipillone 21:01 

Yeah, we loved her.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 21:01 

Small world, that's crazy! 

 

Matt Cipillone 21:02 

I was just, I was just talking about her before. She was here.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 21:05 

She's the greatest. She's awesome.  

 

Matt Cipillone 21:07 

Yeah, we had a really good time. She was great.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 21:08 

So what draws you to making documentary films? And then can you kind of explain a little bit why you went down the social awareness route?  

 

Matt Cipillone 21:16 

Yeah, I think I remember at one point I... from that broader sense, this is a way where I like to work on stuff that makes me angry. Right? That's just my own personal way of addressing things I care about, in a way that other people have responded to, in a, you know, productive way. But it does mean, you know...it's funny. I don't strictly do documentary work. Like I came back... I came back from Afghanistan, and the next job I did was for my friend's restaurant for National Nacho Day, right? Like, there's a balance.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 21:57 

Right, right. I'm not, I'm not a purist. I love my documentary work. But I also love music. I love arts. I love food. And so I love mixing those things in for balance. But to answer your question, you know, the majority of the stuff that I'm most proud of is in that social arena. And on one hand, it's like, it's a good way to feel like you're contributing, but the flip side of that is so self serving, I get to learn about such a broad set of topics. Yeah, I was just upstairs, well, another building, talking to the really impressive foreign correspondence group. And I just said you guys are so... you're such... there's so many policy experts in here. I said the one thing that I was most naive about is that I thought coming from the foster care fields, I had to go back, learn these skills and plug into just that nonprofit communications office. Next thing I knew, before, like, my second year was over, I was already working on a capital punishment film with Professor Stogner, a mixed race families in America film with, Professors, Borum and Jayaswal. It's like, if you understand how to be a good team player, and then identify those subject people, you can work on anything. It's really the going... understanding the process and how to be a good team player, you don't always need to be that policy expert. So I think like really keep your options open. And then I started to embrace that. And I lose count of how many random pieces of information I know that sound like I've known them forever. But I didn't know any of it until I showed up for a new documentary job. So I just get to learn about some interesting things. And I think the biggest perk of it is actually going in person and being in situations where I'll admit, I have no business being there if I'm not a filmmaker. There's no reason I should be allowed in certain situations if I was just a regular person on vacation, it just wouldn't make sense. But instead, I've gotten to experience some things where I come back a better person. And I just wish everyone could do that. Like for example, I got to be at the Mexican side of an overflowing migrant shelter. And just getting to talk with people like that, and spending the day in learning about all their ordeals. And just that simple afternoon, now it was it was longer than that, we also went back several times, but just even that first visit, I just remember the first thought I had was everyone needs to be able to do this. My second thought was, well doesn't make sense. How would they? Right? But, I get to come home and look at the national conversations a little bit differently because I get to plug in a little bit more intimately to certain situations. And for me, that just means a lot to be able to mix that kind of personal evolution with, with what I do for a living.   

 

Grace Ibrahim  

And just want to ask, and you don't have to you don't just pick one, but just curious, what makes you the angriest? I know you mentioned like, you do documentaries based on what makes you angry. Is there something that you're super passionate about?  

 

Matt Cipillone 25:02 

That I mean that that really evolves as as you get older? But, I mean, we don't have enough time for it.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 25:12 

Tell me about it.  

 

Matt Cipillone 25:13 

But I think, you know, in particular, there's the like it for example, I... We have the, we're in development at an exploratory level on a project that would address the Fentanyl crisis. Like for me and loved ones and friends of mine, like, knowing that I could work on something that I know personally, people that have been hurt by that kind of thing. That means a lot. It doesn't mean that that's the only thing I care about. But I really like being able to just some small way move the needle on, on issues that I know have affected me or loved ones or you know, people that I care about.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 25:55 

Yeah, that's awesome. Not the Fentanyl crisis, but that idea is awesome. So, I guess two part question. What do you think makes for a good documentary? You know, I know a lot of people in fiction will talk about what makes for a good blockbuster, like, you know, but is there something in your head that you feel you can talk passionately about? That makes for a good documentary?  

 

Matt Cipillone 26:18 

I think as far as what people like about it, I think it's being able to have people like they didn't even question, "yeah, but was there an agenda?" Like, or "yeah, but that was kind of too good to be true." Just, if you're just so lost in a film that you never even have that thought because it was told so truthfully, but it has this, just as much of a narrative type of story arc and tug, that's the best combo. I think what makes the documentaries for me most effective is, I think one of the biggest problems we have, especially in this country is people aren't necessarily committed to certain ideas or movements until it happens directly to them or directly to a loved one. They can't picture it, they don't care about it. Everyone's so busy life, so stressful, for better for worse. Or they just lack empathy, right? Let's just say like that. But a good documentary can save someone for having to have that happen to them or a loved one. And that's a huge opportunity, to be able to cut through that veil of, well, now that it happened in my kid, now I care about it. It's like, yeah, great, I understand that. But imagine if the best...the best films can get people to that point without a tragedy happening first, or without some kind of wake up call happening first, or getting people to understand that this will never happen to them, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't care about it. And that piece is most, is just as important. It's saying that there's, there's no lifetime where this issue will affect you, but you vote in this country, so you're still responsible. And I think the best films, you know, close that distance.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 28:07 

Yeah. And then to that, is there anything in your own personal process when you're making a project that you feel is necessary?  

 

Matt Cipillone 28:13 

For me, it goes back to that. I know, we've touched on it, but really reaching out ahead of time and trying to establish relationships. I'm most comfortable that way. But I also know it makes for the most successful filmmaking like, I'm always happy to do as much outreach as I think a situation will take ahead of time, because it just means you're already you already have that rapport when you show up. Right? And what you show up with, especially in filmmaking can be pretty overwhelming. Sometimes, I mean, trouble that, you know, a van, a truck, you know, a whole crew. You know, it's not anything too novel, but I think that's the one I go back to the most often.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 28:52 

Interesting, okay.  

 

Matt Cipillone 28:54 

And also, I really, like being known for having a photographer's eye because I started out as a photographer, Oh, interesting. And a lot of people think that word video is not as meticulous as cinematography, and like, we talked about film, but film and video are pretty interchangeable, especially in short form. And I just always, like approaching every frame, like I'm taking a photo, as opposed to just filming a video. It's just more fun for me that way, and it makes for more cinematic final projects.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 29:26 

Right? That's great.  

 

Matt Cipillone 29:27 

So I think those those two are really what I lean on the most and have the most fun with. Awesome, love that. And I'm actually just curious. Have you ever dealt with a subject saying like, no, absolutely not. I don't want to be on camera or in your how do you kind of deal with that rejection or just any advice on on that in general? Yes, absolutely. Not in any sort of deal breaking sense. But a lot of times you're, you're asking, you're approaching multiple individuals or families to just make sure that you have enough cross section. And in that pre-producing process, you make sure that you have enough options lined up to where you're still casting a wide enough net, knowing that more often than not, the answer might likely be more no than yes.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 30:14 

So like, don't put all your eggs in one basket.  

 

Matt Cipillone 30:16 

Exactly. Exactly. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 30:18 

Okay. That's a good a good one. I do want to kind of jump back. Can you just talk a little bit more about your work prior to coming to grad school? So you said you started out as a photographer? And you were kind of in the nonprofit world.  

 

Matt Cipillone 30:29 

I wasn't full time photographer. I was just, it was a hobby.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 30:32 

Awesome.  

 

Matt Cipillone 30:32 

Just mess around doing artwork. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 30:34 

 Yeah, that's fun. Do you have anything you'd like to shoot in particular?  

 

Matt Cipillone 30:38 

Yeah, I, I loved just going out and doing like, I was I was more into artwork, like doing abstract, like street photography, I learned how to stretch canvases. It was more I just had this growing like creative itch I was trying to scratch because I felt like my career was in a transition phase.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 30:55 

Okay. 

 

Matt Cipillone 30:57 

And then, what happened was, I got to do my first kind of story by accident one time. And I loved that process so much that all of a sudden, the artwork took a backseat. And I was like, I really liked telling a visual story.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 31:10 

What do you mean story by accident? How was it?  

 

Matt Cipillone 31:12 

I had started in Baltimore, a photo program for kids at a local after school program.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 31:20 

Oh, that's awesome. Awesome. And then that's what brought you to American University.  

 

Matt Cipillone 31:26 

But that also was me thinking I would take that and go back into the nonprofit world. Couldn't have been farther from how this actually works. And the board for that founded a wonderful program called Living Classrooms. The board for that was thinking of putting resources behind some of these newer programs that were just kind of popping up from people like me. And they wanted to get a better sense of what it was. So I had to document my own activity. And that was my first real story that I did. I was documenting what I was doing myself. But I wasn't filming myself, I was filming all these really interesting projects to the kids were making. And that kind of led me down this path of really keeping my eye on that and looking for chances to do it. But it was still for, for photo based. And then I would get asked to do videos. And I didn't think it would be very fun. Because I love photos so much. Like I said, I honestly said no to a lot of video interviews that probably could have broken me in earlier. I just didn't know what I didn't know. And then fast forward a little bit, I was working in foster care. I wasn't a licensed social worker, but I was on a grant where I was doing workshops with teenagers in foster care. And it was with very progressive agencies. And we were doing some great work and a state wanted to make a documentary project about we were doing what we were doing. And that, the filmmaker came in, and because he understands how relationships work. He said, "Hey, I heard you're good with the camera. But I would really like you to be able to guide this ship and be the producer and ask the questions. And I'll tell you everything you need to know. But this is going to go best if I don't say a word, even though I'm the professional." I said, Okay. And that, that was such a definitive experience for me, because I got to see how important those people skills were and a filmmaker going in and being not too proud and saying, you're going to be the best person for this, even though there's what I do for a living because I don't know, these young people. And this is a sensitive topic. And so I got to do that with him, a wonderful filmmaker named Tim Morse. And he that really just was this kind of Lightning in a Bottle moment. And that's when I knew I needed to figure this out. And that's when I started applying to school.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 31:35 

Interesting. Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Okay. So aside from the relationship you had with your professors, and all the work that kind of came from that, were there any opportunities within the School of Communications, experiential learning opportunities that you got to be involved in and kind of how that still sort of plays a role in the work you're doing now? 

 

Matt Cipillone 33:56 

There were several and also it just gives me another chance to I left a wonderful professor out earlier, Nina Shapiro Pearl, wonderful, wonderful professor, and she ran the community voice project. That project was really interesting. We got to go out into DC based community stories. But before, again, going back to this understanding how to handle sensitive topics, our first exercise was before we could go out and do some relatively heavy stories - mine was about a gentrification activist - we had to first turn it around and do a personal project on something that really hurt us to talk about because we needed to understand how it felt to get asked about something that was traumatic, because we were about to go do that to people that we had never met. And so I really appreciated that, and that was for, I believe, that might have been a whole year, at least a semester, and I made some wonderful connections in DC. The Dean's internship, I applied to that and I got to work for a summer at Interface Media Group in Washington, DC, one of the leading production and post-houses, excuse me, in the whole region, and then I got to keep in contact with them. And that led to work after I graduated. One, there was a, I mentioned it earlier about going down to the Mississippi Delta with Professor Jayaswal. That was for a program that was called The Lens Collective. And that was an amazing opportunity, I got to go down and work with the Emmett Till Memorial Foundation's dealing with the ongoing vandalism to Emmett Till's Memorial markers, marking his death. And we even got to go into the courthouse where his trial was and film there. Yeah, just really amazing opportunities like that. Those are three that that come to mind. I feel like I'm leaving a couple out. But these are all over the place here. You just have to go ask your professors about them. Yeah. Also, I didn't win it. But I would apply each year to the Pulitzer fellowship. It was a great process to go through, highly selective. And my colleagues and classmates that one were just superstars. But I also really grew a lot going through that process, because it's pretty rigorous. It's a very professional glimpse at, you know, applying and for pretty robust proposals when you graduate. And so I did that a couple times. And just going through that, and then getting to see the winners, like that was a really cool experience. So those are just a few examples. But I was really impressed by how many different types of opportunities like that there were all at the same time.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 34:15 

Yeah. And they're super valuable.  

 

Matt Cipillone 34:24 

Oh, and also the alumni Mentor Program.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 34:37 

Yes!  

 

Matt Cipillone 34:37 

It couldn't have worked out better. I love that idea of keeping the bios anonymous. Does it still work like that? Where... when... you... the bios, you kind of you, you get to when I when I went through the process, we had a list of bios, where they were anonymous, but you just got to mark like, your top three that you were drawn to.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 37:09 

That's cool.  

 

Matt Cipillone 37:09 

They didn't give you a way to find out who they were or how, you know.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 37:13 

I kind of like that so that you're not like picking like, oh, I want this person.  

 

Matt Cipillone 37:16 

Yeah. Because there's so-and-so, you just get an anonymous bio. And then you see what your drawn to. And then you find out. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 37:23 

I don't think they do that anymore, no.  

 

Matt Cipillone 37:25 

It didn't mean everyone got what they wanted, but they were still interested to see how you matched up. And luckily, I got one of the two or three I flagged was my alumni mentor, and that she's in the world of documentary and TV programming. But it turns out her husband, who wasn't part of the program, was, is one of the best documentary. cinematographers out there. And he had done all this work for frontline AlJazeera. And fault lines and all all of this incredible documentary resume and I just started PAing for him.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 38:03 

That's awesome.  

 

Matt Cipillone 38:04 

Yeah. And again, this relationship, I mean, yeah, my mentor was, was great, named Laura Curren Anderson. She's currently a National Geographic. She was wonderful. And her husband Pat. Yeah, they're wonderful couple and Pat ended up hiring me a whole lot. And I got to pick his brain and learn from one of the nicest guys out there who had such a cool, accomplished resume. I love that we always say, I always, always stress it's like a free resource. It's a free resource, the mentorship, you'd be crazy not to throw your hat in the ring for it. And you never know who you're gonna meet. My mentor in grad school, I still am... whenever I go out to Nevada, we get dinner with my... with him and his wife. It's amazing. You just never know, you know, what that relationship is going to lead to, and some of them end after the year, and that's fine. And you know, you kind of just, even if it had ended, I would have gained enough from Laura. We're beyond thrilled with how it went, and instead they were willing to keep in touch.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 38:14 

Yeah, that's great.  

 

Matt Cipillone 38:59 

Yeah, that's and also just, just to plug Professor Jayaswal one more time, when I was graduating, she linked me up with my referral for legitimate you know, week of production for a local firm, who were... one of the partners is also an American SOC alum of Beekeeper Group.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 39:17 

Wow.  

 

Matt Cipillone 39:18 

Yeah. Mike Panetta at Beekeeper Group and he knows Lena. And so I did a good job for them and turns out to this day, I'm still doing a large part of their their video and editing work. All from just a referral that went well.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 39:37 

That's so great. 

 

Matt Cipillone 39:37 

 Yeah, that one really, I mean, that got me, that was a big one for not knowing COVID was around the corner.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 39:43 

Wow. Shoutout Lena. I feel like she's, she's wonderful now. 

 

Matt Cipillone 39:47 

Oh, I owe a whole lot to her.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 39:48 

That's amazing. All right. Last question. Might be a difficult one for you to choose. But out of all your professional achievements, which have been many, many, many great ones. Is there one that sticks out to you, one that's your favorite, one that you just, you hold near and dear to your heart? 

 

Matt Cipillone 40:06 

I think it's a tie not to have a cop out answer, but I have a tie between two.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 40:11 

Acceptable.  

 

Matt Cipillone 40:12 

One was going to Mexico with Professor Gentile, and then watching him write that script and narrate that and tie it all together and go and edit that with him. And like that whole process was just, it was so meaningful, because I had never in my wildest dreams thought I was ready for something like that. And it's a real vote of confidence when people see it in you before you see it in yourself. And you get through that kind of thing. And you're like, wow, I can really, I really can handle a lot more. And then, again, nod to, nod to Professor Gentile, one of the journalists, we met through that process, because that that film highlighted journalists and their work out in the field, one of those journalists, fast forward a couple years down the road, him and his filmmaking partner, after hiring me for a couple other domestic projects, they took me to Afghanistan. And during COVID, I spent two different month long stints in Afghanistan, as the second camera under an incredible DP and journalist conversation combination, who again, Professor Gentile linked me up with, and that led to a really exciting feature film that just wrapped up a festival circuit. And, yeah, it was fun to go through the filmmaking process. But the fact is, I never thought I get to spend two months in Afghanistan, making lifelong friends there and learning about this, what turned out to be this moment in time because the country collapsed during our film. So I have never been that close to world events before, in that way. And so each of those were a really big challenge compared to where I thought I might have been. And I feel like I did good work for both of them. So and then you throw in the added, you know, cultural element of being in Afghanistan, right before something like that happens. And I was just really proud of how that all went. Because for me, those were really, what I felt, pushing my boundaries. So to come back and look at those as a good work that went well, I can't pick between the two, but those two gave me the most confidence for anything else that I think would come next.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 42:23 

That's awesome. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you for being here today, Matt. This is awesome.  

 

Matt Cipillone 42:29 

This was cool. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 42:30 

We talked about so much. I hope everyone was listening. Because there were some great stuff in there advice wise 

 

Matt Cipillone 42:35 

Go make your professors earn in their money - they're invaluable.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 42:39 

Yeah. Just talk to them, because they want to talk to you too. That's like the conclusion I found talking to, with professors that I've had on the pockets that were real, funny enough, my old professors, and now we're colleagues, and it's like, I got to see them in such a different light. And I kind of wish I know what I know now. And I take that back into my student experience and utilize it more I definitely did. But I think it could have been more so like you said, just get out there. Get out of your comfort zone. Think outside the box. I really liked that you said that. If there's an assignment that you want to expand on, I feel like in this industry, just ask. You just never know. 

 

Matt Cipillone 43:12 

Yeah, there's it's you weirdly get more yeses than you're expecting because what I found out, and once you learn that, then you kind of become fearless with those kinds of asks. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 43:23 

Right, absolutely. Yeah. That's awesome. Good note to end on. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here today. Hope we can get you back for a part two. And if you want to donate to the School of Communication, go to giving.american.edu. We will see you on the next one. That's a wrap. 

 

Matt Cipillone 43:38 

Thank you.  

Grace Ibrahim 00:00 

Yeah, and also the name...How did you come up with that?  

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 00:03 

The name has been a really something I have thought about. I thought of more, like, a serious name. But we use the F word so often in our regular life. I thought why not give it a fancy twist? 

 

Grace Ibrahim 00:16 

Oh, I get that. Oh, so yeah, you use the F word, but in a good way. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay, I didn't realize that. That was like it was like, Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, it's awesome. 

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 00:31 

So that's how the name came up, very impromptu matter of few seconds, but it was like, yeah, maybe I can use that right. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 00:38 

Welcome to Media in the Mix, the only podcast produced and hosted by the School of Communication at American University. Join us as we create a safe space to explore topics and communication at the intersection of social justice, tech, innovation, and pop culture. All right, welcome back to Media in the Mix. I'm your host Grace Ibrahim. And today we're joined by Shilpa Das Gupta, who is the host of the Oh Folk podcast, has worked at American University works in library has done research here has been a student here. And we're going to touch on all of that today, but Shilpa, thank you so much for joining us today.  

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 01:14 

Thank you for having me. This is amazing. And getting you know, this kind of response from your own school is feels great. So thank you. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 01:25 

Good to hear, we actually came across one of your stories you did at AU. And the podcast is the Oh, Folk podcast. And that's where we got introduced to you. And it's just so cool getting to learn about colleagues on campus, kind of just doing the same thing you're doing except we have two completely different topics that we discuss, which is why I'm so excited to talk to you about your topic today...which is basically like folklore and just old tales, which coming from Middle Eastern culture, I have so many of those that I grew up with. So very excited to talk to you. But first, let's kind of start from the very beginning. Can you kind of just give us like a little outline about your time at AU kind of from, you know, being an employee to being a student to doing research, and then how you kind of got into this podcasting world.  

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 02:08 

Sure. I started in February 2017, initially as a part time employee, with the audiovisual department. And then that same year in fall, I joined SOC to do my second master's degree in Strategic Communication. I completed it, I was still working as the as a part time employee. I graduated, and then I was still working here, as well as I was doing a full time job with the Discovery Networks. In November 2021. I got a call, I got an offered this current position of mine, and here I am. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 02:47 

That's amazing. And second master's degree, what was your first master's degree? 

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 02:52 

I did my first master's degree in us from Florida State University. It was an MSC in Media and Communication Studies, and Digital Media Studies, actually. And yeah, then I was working and I thought I will concentrate more on strategic communication, more like intercultural communication, and that's how I landed here.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 03:13 

That's so great. And can you tell us like about your time at doing the STRATCOM program? Was there like a favorite class memory professor or anything you can kind of shed light to that?  

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 03:23 

Oh, my gosh, there's so many great memories. Since I spoke about intercultural of course tops, my list of great memories is the intercultural class communication class with Professor Doshi Priyadarshi. Oh, my gosh, I loved every bit of it during the country profiles and those great case studies. It was amazing. Another class I absolutely loved was the research class with Professor Molly O'Rourke. We had very small team. But we had such great profound discussions in the class that I, I still remember them vividly. And they were something I used to look forward to. So that's something which I remember very fondly, and then my capstone with Professor Graf. It was a very sensitive topic, but his subtle sense of humor, probably, you know what I mean, kept me sane and kept me sailing through my capstone. So yeah, those are great days. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 04:28 

And so can you just tell everyone your background prior to like coming to American University? I know we were talking a little bit offline, but you came from a radio background, a TV production background, did that happen prior to coming back for the strat-com? Was that something that you were like, Oh, I enjoyed this, but I also want to expand my skills and communication. Can you just talk about that a little bit?  

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 04:48 

Yeah. So, before coming to the US. I was a full fledged communication and media professional back in India. I have worked there for quite many years. I started my full time career as a radio professional. I was a primetime producer and radio jockey. And then I joined TV, I did production. And then I decided to take a pause, and concentrate or study or educate myself more on communication research, because that has always been something I have wanted to study. But in India, you have media programs, but not really communication research programs, at least not at that time. Probably now, you have more options. So I decided to take a pause and come to us and do my higher education, communication research. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 05:41 

That's amazing. Good for you. I feel like that's covering so many bases of the comms world, comms and media world. That's very unique. And can you give us just a little bit of background to when you were a research assistant, kind of what type of research you did, and how did you come across that opportunity? Was that through your classes? Was that through like an assistantship program?  

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 06:01 

Yeah, it was through assistantship. So as international student, you are allowed to work certain hours. Yeah. And of course, that has to be within the department. So that's how this research assistantship with Professor Trevino came my way. And it was a very, very intense experience in terms of learning, I really wanted something like that. Because that was when I learned the nuances of qualitative and quantitative research, which eventually helped me doing my capstone. And furthermore, into whatever I do, actually, even for my podcast, because my podcast includes a lot of research. And those learnings have stayed with me. Yeah, the areas have changed. Of course they do.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 06:07 

Absolutely.  

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 06:18 

And I picked up those things during my time at AU SOC. And even before when I was, you know, doing my first master's, and FSU is both our communication research programs, so I picked up bits and pieces from both my courses.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 07:11 

Wow, Shilpa you're so decorated! Good for you, very impressive resume. That's amazing. And then I kind of just want to go on a little bit of a tangent here, because I think this is the first time I'm actually sitting with another pass international student, I was an international student as well. Can you speak to... I have two questions, number one, advice to what students can look for on campus, because I know we don't always have the same opportunities as other people when it comes to work, you know, things that we can do with professors, etc. But then also, can you just kind of give any advice, words of encouragement that it's not completely impossible, and that you know, the path can exist, it's just maybe finding the right places to look or something like that? Any advice there?  

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 07:53 

Yeah. I don't know if I should call it advice. But I just, you know, want to be that person telling that everything will be fine. Yes, it looks crazy. When you first step. I remember when I came to this country, for me, going to Mars and coming to US was the same thing because I didn't know anybody here. And maybe if I would have traveled to Mars, I would have been searching. I started from zero. And specially for, you know, mid level professionals like me, leaving a full time job where you are earning well, where you are doing well for yourself, leaving everything and coming back to student life is very, very challenging, emotionally and on a cerebral level. And many people do that when they come to this country. So for them and for international students, otherwise, I just want to say hang in there. Yeah, it's difficult. It's extremely challenging. Yeah, you will feel lonely, but you will get through this.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 08:54 

That's a very...I feel like that is advice. It's good. Good, good wisdom there. And it's very true. This...this too shall pass, these times will pass and you know, you could surprise yourself. So hang in there. 

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 09:08 

You land somewhere, someday, somewhere.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 09:11 

Yeah, exactly. And then on your...the topic of research, basically, is there any you know, lessons that you kind of took away from your research that you did at American anything that stays with you today? Anything you learned skills wise, that kind of you apply to your to your day to day today? 

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 09:30 

Absolutely. Oh my gosh, there's so many things, but I will say some of the core thoughts that I had, from you know, learning everything about communication research is that no matter what your research is and how difficult it is, the more lucidly, you can present it to the larger audience, larger listeners or audience whatever you say readers, the better it is because the core idea of good research is how well it serves the community....how well it serves the people. And the more people understands it, more people imbibe it in their life in some way or the other, the better the effectiveness of research lies there. And I learned that you can do that very effectively using content, create content, because content is the king, we all know. And content can be really easy, it can be very, very easy to look. But still, you can impart very intense knowledge through them. It doesn't have to be very heavy with difficult language, it can be easy, but it can be still very, very effective. So I think those learnings, and it's not like I learned it from one area or something, it's like, from my overall experience, I still use it. Because when today I do my podcast, or I do anything I write something, I always try to keep it as simple as possible, because I just don't believe in using difficult flowery language. So yeah, that's probably that'll be the most important thing.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 11:05 

Yeah, that's so fascinating. That reminds me of another episode we did, where we were talking about how sometimes the field of science communications gets so complicated that it's nice to have visuals, it's nice to have this language that can connect with a wider audience than maybe those people...that the small percentage that would know the big word or such it's nice to like, you know, reach a whole nother group of people that might not have been interested in that type of content. So that's so cool that you bring that up. I love that. And I want to dive into your podcast now. Because we are podcasting. So "Oh, Folk", I want to talk about all the little details first. So, can you just kind of tell us like, I know, during the article, I don't want to give too much away, but it kind of happened during the pandemic. Was there a certain you know, catalysts that kind of happened? Was there something that happened that kind of launched you into this? Or was it just a natural progression? And also the name How did you come up with the name? 

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 11:54 

The name has been really something I have thought about. I thought of more like a serious name. But we use the F word so often in our regular life. I thought why not give it a fancy twist? 

 

Grace Ibrahim 12:07 

Oh, I get that. Oh, that's so cool. 

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 12:10 

You use the F word, but in a good way. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 12:14 

Yeah. Okay, I didn't realize that. That was like it was like, Oh, Folk, that's awesome. Yeah, it's awesome.  

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 12:22 

So that's how the name came up, very impromptu matter of few seconds, but it was like, yeah, maybe I can use that. And it's easy to connect. Yeah, people say that little F-word all the time. Like, but say my way now.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 12:35 

So funny. I love that actually, that's awesome. Okay, okay.  

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 12:41 

Yeah, speaking of pandemic, when I left radio, a part of me felt extremely sad, because I love radio. I call it my first love. And it's, it was so personal, that when I left, I promised myself that I'll come back to it in some way. And then life happened, I came to this country. There was no scope for me to go back to radio professionally, for multiple reasons. But then I thought that why not doing a audio podcast? Because that's the best and the and the most close? Yeah, the closest I can reach.  

 

Grace Ibrahim 13:18 

And I know, it's so easy to talk about the good moments and the exciting moments and the successes and all that. But can you speak on some of the challenges and obstacles and maybe some fears you had launching this podcast? Especially when it's something that's all you if there's this higher stakes, higher pressures? And then would you how would, or rather how, anything you want to say to AU students, because I know a lot of people nowadays want to start their own podcast. So any, just, insight there on how to overcome those obstacles? 

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 13:46 

Sure. So when I started, I think my biggest fear was, will I be able to manage so many things. And I know many people have that fear, because people are not doing just one thing. They have so many things. Because as I said, I had two jobs, a family, and then I was starting this new thing. So I was like, is this the right thing I'm doing? But somewhere it felt right, because I was so passionate about this project. So you will always have that I think, to prospective podcasters that's what I want to say. You will have problems you will have life going on. But just take that leap of faith. Just give it and then just see how it goes. And if you say that, how I overcame it. I think a little bit of organization, a little bit of planning helps a long way. And that's also actually something I learned during my research days, you know, to have a methodical research process like the overall process, just have a little time spent some time on that and rest of the things kind of falls in place. So if you have too many things going on like I did, planning a little bit ahead of time really helped me a lot, because although my first episode went on air in August 2021, I started planning for it probably from February or March. Because the research took a long time I had, I wanted to have some kind of banking of episodes and all of that. So yeah, yeah, that will be my advice. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 15:24 

That's great. Good for you. And I imagine going from working for a place like Discovery where you're working with a huge team, and then all of a sudden, you're doing this podcast where a lot of production is on your own. And it's like a smaller team. And it's yeah, it's a different world. It's a different world. That's amazing. And so a lot of these story stories-slash-your storytelling, you're bringing stories that almost sometimes get lost in history, or we're kind of like resurrecting these tales. I know with me, it's my mom used to always tell me about 1001 Nights, which is the Arabian... original Arabian Night. Why is that important to you? And why do you feel like other people are gonna resonate with that too? I have to mention that Shilpa is in the top 50 of folklore podcast, by the way, and like all of podcasting. So that's very, very impressive. So I guess the question is, why do you think that resonated with people? And what do you think the magic is? Yeah, I think that I connect with you in this so much, because growing up in India, folktales have always been part of my life, in some way or the other. We, you know, you hear stories from grandparents. And then probably you'll hear this from many people coming from the South Asian belt, that we had long nights of power cuts. And those were the nights when children used to flock together and listen to stories from grandparents. Yeah, that was a very common thing, too. And we didn't have so many entertainment routes at that point. On TV, you don't have so many channels, you see what they're showing you basically. And even there, folktales used to be a huge part of entertainment, especially mythological stories. So I've grown up on that it has been all my childhood. And then reading was a part of my childhood as well. So reading stories, listening to them, stories were everywhere around me. And growing up, I realized folktales are not just tales. Yeah, they have strong undertones of culture, of the locality from where these tales are evolving. And that fascinated me even more. So when I'm reading a story. I'm not just reading that particular story, I'm learning about the culture, I'm learning about people of that area. So it's a lot of things going on within that small story. So yes, I have grown up on the traditional ones, like Arabian Nights, as you mentioned, Aesop's Fables, but also a many local ones, ones that nobody knows outside my locality. You know, many of them I have forgotten myself. But what stayed with me was the fact that these are small stories popping up from communities of people. And they have no records today. Yeah, because that was oral storytelling tradition. People pass on generation after generation. And after a point, they just vanish. So all these coming together, and my love for radio broads. That's awesome. And can you give us like a little insight into kind of the skeleton of one of your episodes? So if you, you find the story, you find the folk tale, whatever it may be. And then from there, do you go into like a research process? And how do you kind of outline the episode? And then what does the episode end up looking like? 

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 18:45 

Yeah, so the first thing that I do is search for the story, that becomes challenging, because as you already know, I don't pick the common ones. You will never hear a Cinderella story in my episodes, because everybody knows it. So picking the story is the first step. Yeah, after that's finalized, I kind of back calculate and kind of take steps backwards rather than going forward. So I back calculate what the culture is where it is coming from, and do my research on those elements. Now, in that process, of course, I, I rely a lot on online research because I have a job. I can't, you know, physically go to places much. But I also rely on talking to people. So I find out information. Many times it has happened that I haven't found that information online. That's when I've, you know, tried to talk to people through online communities of storytellers, online communities of folktales. Then people coming from those areas. So I've spoke to "Hey, do you know somebody coming from, say, some part of India, can you connect me," you know, word of mouth, talking to people have helped me a lot thought through understanding of culture. And yeah, so a typical episode will be like I start off with some hook element, it can be a little piece of music from the that area, little story or a poem about that area. And then I move on to talk about the folktale itself, and the culture about where the folktale is coming from. I tell a little bit about the country, because if it's a country lesser known, like, Brunei, you know, not many people know about these countries in at least this part of the world. So I highlight about that, the geographic location and all that. And then I cover a little bit of the culture stories, then I go into the folktale itself. And I try to connect the folktale with how it's relevant in today's time. And that's kind of how I sort of wrap on those. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 20:57 

That's so cool. That's so cool. I love that. I love that. And so like, just educational, I feel like because you just start learning about things you never really would go out of your way to learn about, I guess the best way to put them, you know, like, not everyone's gonna think about folklore and tales of time. Of all of the things you've done, is there a certain project or career path you've decided to take or experience that you've had that you're most proud of? One that sticks out?  

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 21:27 

It's hard. There are few, of course, but you know, rather than picking one or two such events, I would say, the journey so far has been, has been really, really joyful. I would say, it hasn't been easy, especially coming from country like India and being a girl. It's tough, and society makes it tough. And for me, I lost my father at a very young age in an accident, growing up was difficult. And then eventually, when I grew up, there are expectations people expect you to follow. Breaking those and coming to whatever, wherever I have arrived until now has been a challenge. It has been a heck of a ride. But it's a ride worth riding. So rather than picking one or two incidents, I would say that every time I am faltering, I'm, you know, I'm in doubt, I try to think about everything that has happened in my life so far. And yeah, I keep going. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 22:33 

That's amazing. That's amazing. Good for you. And I relate to that one on such a personal note of just like breaking barriers and kind of, you know, changing the game in your generation versus maybe the generations that were before you. That's awesome. Good for you. And then, I guess, basically, in this whole universe of intercultural communications in the podcast and the research you've done, what do you feel like is the most fulfilling part, being part of all that?  

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 23:01 

Oh my gosh, I think it'll be just working and meeting people from across the globe. It gives me so much joy and happiness. And you learn so much, you know, and that learning is not like you, you have to go to a school and do a degree, but to learn so organically, every day of your life. And then after many years, if you pause and take like, a look back, you're like, I am a different person. And for good. And that is the most fascinating part in everything. And so it's important, I think everybody should have some experiences like this, because it enriches you. It evolves you as a person. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 23:43 

Absolutely. And then last question, just in terms of Oh, Folk is th ere - and now when I say that title, I just laugh to myself, I love it - Is there any, like plans for growth? Or is there a place you want to see it at anywhere, anything you want to see it become? Basically what's next there, anything? 

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 24:04 

Yeah. So I have a longer vision, but then I also break it down into small little milestones. So one such idea that I really want to fulfill for podcast, my podcast is, I want to cover at least one story from every nation, nation of the world. So that will be roughly 195 stories. I haven't done too many because I have covered like one country multiple times. Okay, different stories. So that's probably I have covered 13 or 14 countries so far. I have a long way to go. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 24:37 

But still! You're moving on that list. 

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 24:40 

So that's the, that's the smaller goal, but the longer vision or the long term vision that I have is, I really hope if in any way possible, I can take my podcast and make it part of learning curriculum in, you know, economically backward countries because I know, their education thrives on such scarce resources. So if this podcast becomes part of learning for, for young or adult learning, that doesn't matter, but at least through this podcast, if people can learn more about the world, I think that's where it will be the most fulfilling for me. And I'm not saying this is going to happen in one year. I don't envision that. But maybe down 6-10 years, if I can possibly make this happen, I'll be the happiest. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 25:32 

That's amazing. I love that, and fingers crossed, that does happen. I feel like we are organically just saying people start to learn things. And it's like, it's organic education. It's the best way to describe it. That's awesome. 

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 25:44 

It's like you're listening to stories. It's not like a pressure of doing an assignment. But still you are learning about these countries. And which is going to, I think, help whoever is learning a lot going forward in life. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 25:57 

100%. I know I did a whole film masters but then whenever I listen to like film podcasts or directors or screenwriters, I'm like, this doesn't feel like work. It's nice. It's a nice outlet to do that. Yeah. That's amazing. So Shilpa it was such an honor and a delight to speak to you today. Thank you so much. I'm glad us in the team finally met you. I feel like a lot of collaborations to come hopefully. And thank you so much for being here. 

 

Shilpa Das Gupta 26:22 

Oh my gosh, I can't even thank you and the team, everybody who can't see on the camera. These guys are amazing. They're doing a great job. So so happy. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. 

 

Grace Ibrahim 26:35 

Thank you and this episode will be coming out early March. So you can expect it then. We are a biweekly podcast, we are every other Wednesday. So look for us then. And if you'd like to donate to the School of Communication, go to giving.american.edu And that's a wrap!